AboutWikisVsBlogs


Joi's Wiki has moved to [WWW]a new SocialText wiki
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Besides SnipSnap, there are other WikiLogEngines, to include [WWW]Vanilla (said to be the first), [WWW]VanillaSBX, and [WWW]JSPWiki. The distinction between wikis and blogs really hinges on nothing more than support for RSS syndication. Wiki software is only starting to support RSS output. It's a trivial exercise to create a wiki that looks just like a blog, the real question is whether you can make a blog authoring/publishing application such as [WWW]Radio Userland, [WWW]Manila or MovableType into a wiki. -- DavidMattison 12 May 2003
Designer Butt, Janne, but WikiVandals gives too much status. Sounds like a band. The term is widespread, and probably warranted by the afflicted. I've read somewhere a comment about how it must be a 'tiny thrill' considering the openness of the platform. Your mutability comment above reminds me of my image of the SandDune quality of wikis. Solid, but drifting. Some are occasionally inhabited by SandFleas. Good luck turning on the editing, maybe outside the LockUp - ArsAlias AkaWiki ( WhatsThis AutoMatic '?' )
I think BillSeitz is "right on target" in a comment he makes on [WWW]"Getting up to speed on wikis - Part I" by JimMcGee:

For more about this concept, see SelfOrganizingSystems

JimMcGee follows with [WWW]"Getting up to speed on wikis - Part II" to include a pointer to [WWW]"Blogging, RSS, and Wikis - Presentations, Papers, and a Pathfinder" by JennyLevine on her blog, [WWW]The Shifted Librarian.


I think that WikiLogs are really exciting. A WikiLog mixes the strict structure of a weblog into the freedom of a wiki. [WWW]YpsilantiEyeball:PublicWikiWeblogs -- MarkDilley (p.s. what do you think about inviting people to try editing a page in the SandBox?

The first time I saw a blog, I looked for a place to respond to the entries, like a message board. So I think I mistook my first blog experience for a wiki. Why aren't there more of wikis out there?

I'm somewhat surprised [WWW]Doc hasn't created one. Or has he? I should ask.

I'm working on [WWW]GlobeAlive "The World Live Web" and am starting to think of ways to use wikis to allow users to interact with live experts/participants when they're not online. Many have already suggested every participant at GlobeAlive have a blog, but the wikiblog medium might be even more attractive, as it sure beats our current form of offline interaction. -- [WWW]Allen Searls

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BlikiBlather 0.0.2

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=blog+wiki Results 1 - 10 of about 64,300 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=bliki+blog+wiki Results 1 - 10 of about 169 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=wikilog Results 1 - 10 of about 19,700

15 june 2003

Audiences overlap, interests overlap. People overlap? What kind of site are you running here?

... a little joke while Thinkering? A few years ago, what would have been the results for either 'blog' or 'wiki' - as much as the combo now? Each term was built by leaders, and there are seamless integrations at work not just of BlogAndWiki, but site/forum/blog/wiki/cart/etc ...

Perhaps someone observing the BlogWiki convergence more than weeks (like myself) might inform from where the advance is based? What is the motivation. Blog is discovering wiki is my impression, as part of the tech/communicate culture that motivates it, and the wiki stands as an older, overlooked item to add to it's arsenal of talented tech. In the blogs and wikis I've visited while exploring each technology, I've seen more bloggers headlining 'I've added a wiki to my ...' than vice versa. Actually, I can't think of a single wiki that blared 'We've added a blog to our ...'!

Is there a wiki where the index queried for volunteers to admin the wiki blog, or be the editor.

Wikis are built by communities, or individuals, that build other things than audiences as their primary goal, relative to blog motivations. Bloggers also are builders, but more self and audience oriented, and some of the audience is always looking for something new.

Like watching people overlap.

- ArsAlias IkiWiki

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=seamless+wiki+blog

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Hey Joi. Yeah, my dad's not a wikiblogger yet. He can't hide from it for long though. Interestingly enough, at the Emerging Tech Conference, wikiblogging was clearly the hotter topic. For example, the social software alliance BoF, probably the most intense two hours of the conference, [WWW]turned itself into a big wiki BTW, thanks for digging GlobeAlive. =)-- [WWW]Allen


Here's a little more discussion on the nature of weblogs and wikis at [WWW]jill/txt's site. Her post mentions a real-world analogy we might think of for blogs: newspaper (columns). Also, weblogs tend to encourage [WWW]SoapBoxing and [WWW]Trolls and Flaming behaviors, whereas Wikis tend more towards behaviors like the [WWW]WikiMaster, [WWW]WikiGnome, [WWW]WikiFairies, and [WWW]WikiGremlins.

But the post by JillWalker doesn't mention any real world analog for Wikis. One might think of Wikis as something like a graffiti wall. That might explain why some people don't understand wikis or have a negative image of them like they would of graffiti. Perhaps a better and more easily acceptable analogy would be a whiteboard that a group is using to brainstorm an idea or work on a problem.

This [WWW]page at Abbenormal has the most comprehensive list of tools combining features of weblogs and wikis (wikilogs). And I like the way [WWW]AbbeNormal (whose wiki has an RSS feed and other blog features) and you (whose blog categories link to wiki pages) are starting to combine the two, but I think there is still a long way to go. --DougHolton

I'm not sure there is an offline equivalent to wikis. Graffiti isn't it, because of both the negative connotation and the lack of thoughtful content. Certainly "Frodo Lives!" in the New York subway isn't the same as [WWW]Wikipedia? Even collaborative offline media are much more concerned with attribution and much friendlier to commenting, rather than editing. The closest thing I can think of is jazz, where one player lays down a melody and the rest improvise around it, but jazz is still linear. There's no way to undo what has gone before. Maybe it's the improvisation of live jazz, with the added luxury of an instantly available editing deck? -- KatherineDerbyshire

I agree, I don't think wikis should be equated to a graffiti wall, I just was wondering what might explain the image some people may have of wikis. I can't find the reference, but I remember reading about some person who left a Word document intentionally open on a public computer, and he saw some of the same good and bad behaviors you might see with a wiki. But I can see now another thing that is wrong with the graffiti analogy. People do not typically just stumble across a wiki page accidentally or pass by it like they would a wall of graffiti. There probably is a meaningful connection to your interests that led you to a wiki page, such as a google search, a link from a blog, or following a wiki you like ([UseMod]RecentChangeJunkie). So I do like your jazz analogy because members in a jazz session share a similar connection. You have your jazz masters and your WikiMasters. --DougHolton

For some reason, the comments section of my blog feels like a public place. Trolls seem to think it's ok to come and piss on my sidewalk. (Please excuse the language.) My wiki feels like a commons. In Japan, there is an old tradition called "satoyama". The community in the Shinto religion based tradition would adopt a small mountainside as theirs to maintain. They often started by putting a small shrine at the top of the river. The god protected the spring. (This god was aways a woman for some reason...) The god told people not to pee in the river or dirty the water. (This was good for the people downstream.) Anyway, everyone in the community participating in taking care of the forest, river and other small things that needed taking care of. -- JoiIto 2003-05-18

Interesting transposition from nature (the feminine form of the word) ;) to SocialSoftware environments. I think it is a subject worth exploring more. Since I am an old grump, I suspect that many wiki vandals are youth who [WWW]"hate the fucking world", yet are striving for some competency in it. Unfortunately, a hopefully transitory competency is to be vulgar, cynical, and damaging. If I can shock you, then I must be worth something. This attitude may have something to do with a lack of something useful to do and a lack of credit / recognition when something useful is done. -- 24.24.86.16 2003-06-01 21:31:59 JST


Something that Wikis provide better support for than Weblogs are PermaLinks. See [WWW]my thoughts here. --JanneJalkanen


Much better! Thanks Katherine! -- JoiIto


Related Links

The ability of the Net to come up with things never ceases to amaze me. I have a blog, which has some elements which, after thinking about it, really would be better served as a wiki. So I thought -- can you have the two together? That thought was a couple of weeks ago -- now I am looking at just such a site!

-John Howard Oxley