Please please stop setting up scripts that bounce virus and spam email back to the sender. You're doubling the spam. Usually the sender or the "from:" is forged. My mailbox is getting filed with people bouncing email back to me that did not originate from me. (I DO check the IP addresses in the headers to makes sure.) What triggered this message was from an ignorant ass who bounced a message to me saying:

Your mail was rejected

You are crimer

Checking the header showed that it came from an IP address of a network I've never been on.

So please. Stop it.

13 Comments

Actually there are also false bounce messages, just as there are fake signatures generated by worms that try to indicate as if the message, and its eventual attachments were scanned, and safe.

It is an ugly mess, and you are lucky to be using a Mac, since the 90% of the PC users who are (still) using Microsoft Windows, and Internet Explorer, have to worry about spyware coming through the simple act of unsuspectingly opening a web page as well.

I would be interested in finding some research that shows the backlash against this situation in the diminished Internet use by those who feel can do without.

You may find the following two links useful:


http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/2004-01/msg00821.html


http://www.timj.co.uk/linux/bogus-virus-warnings.cf


This is a much more tractable problem than spam due to a smaller set of senders, extreme similarity between the messages, and (to date) a lack of motivation on the part of the sender (in this case the bounce-agent) to vary the text for the express purpose of avoiding people's filters.

If my spam filter accidentally bounces legitimate mail, how is the sender supposed to find out unless the bounce message goes back to them?

Why bounce it Kathrine? And if you insist on bouncing, don't call them a "crimer" ;-p

Going faster is the system job, crimer.

Hi,

sending spam should be stopped. Sending NDN´s (non-delivery notifications) is standard behavior. According to RFC 821, page 21

ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc821.txt

an NDN message must be send to inform the sender about non-delivery.

This is also stated in the newer version RFC 2821:
ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc2821.txt

The reserve path has to be set accordingly (to null) to prevent mail loops.

Adalbert

AD++ writes:


sending spam should be stopped. Sending NDN´s (non-delivery notifications) is standard behavior.

Indeed. Which is why I suggested filtering out specific bogus bounces rather than imploring people to change their mailer's behavior.


That said, I bit-bucket plenty of stuff as spam, and don't bother sending bounces for it. In point of fact, there are a couple of dozen vendor-specific addresses that I have on my system that have been abused, and I just point them at /dev/null. Such are the joys of having a node in the DNS to which *only* email for you is addressed - one can fine-tune the MTA to one's on particular tastes, standards be damned (so long as one adheres to the standard "conservative in what you send, liberal in what you accept" interoperability maxim).

Joi:

i got hit by a trackback spam machine: similar to the one that hit Liz Lawleys blog, mamamusings. How do i prevent this stuff from hitting my site. also, i want to turn my trackback section back on, and continue linking up with others who have similar interests, but do not want the spam machines to undermine me with really nasty spam...ect...

stef

I understand that strictly speaking NDNs should be sent, but it would be most useful if they were sent when I actually sent an email instead of when every time a spammer or a virus stole my email address. I'm not sure how wise it is to so strictly follow this RFC. I am somewhat more tolerant of NDNs that label clearly that they are bounced virus or spam alerts since I filter those.

I know spam pisses me off. Some days more than others. I think people who share my feelings want some type of revenge. Hence the return fire. Too bad it's missing the target and hitting the innocent. I'm sure that as long as their is no control measures in place to prevent email abuse this bounce problem is going to get a lot worse before it gets a little better.

I often wonder - who is more at fault the spammer or the pin head who buys product from the spam which inturn must show the spammer a ROI which causes a redoubling of effort.

"EN|1lARGE Y0UR P^E^N^IS 1N A WEEKI||1lY!"

I get some real goofy nasty SPAM's, and Spoofs, on occasion... and two to ten mindless nigerian and netherland's 419's per week... I usually forward it all to abuse@ their providers...Too few do this... It forces them to move to other providers... and keeps them out of the loop for a few hours, or days... but doesn't really give those petty criminal parasitic senders a meaningful Strong Message that I'm not interested... They really need an army boot full-force kick to the throat... They are representative of the aggressive parasites that damage our World Internet's love and respect, and dignity... They don't deserve Any gentleness nor consideration nor respect...

If I send the 419'er a vicious note, the evil little buggers link my address to several shid sites... and I am thus barraged by piles of horrid SPAM's and SCAM's... feeling like the little field mouse that happened to be sleeping under the back end of a cow, when it lifts its tail...

I would really like to give those senders a keen clear powerful THUNDERBIRD super angry screaming message, that says I Really Do Not want their mindless crap ape emails, for all eternity...

I would really like the bounced email to blast out a wicked bird screech, and show an animated huge dinosaur sized bird turd suddenly falling onto the sender's desktop screen, accompanied by extremely nauseous sulfurous "thhhhhht!" and "Splat!" sounds... and splashes of the excrement all over their screen... and a wicked cookie that gives them a little bit of due stress in trying to get the bird poop off their desktop screen... and maybe even a link to a bird poop on-line desktop BP cleaner, but no software download for them... Each time they get a birdie bounce, they must visit the desktop on-line wash...

And maybe a few drops of indelible bird stuff that sticks to the corners of their desktop, and stays there, till they format the HD... That would do it... maybe..


cosmicbrat
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/occultrush/

The easy way to deal out the 419'er spammers is what I do the moment I see I've got a post from one of them...

I copy the post with all the data, paste in a forward, and send it to their "@addresses" with the word "abuse" before each address.. and I send them a copy too... and they usually retaliate by sending me a nasty computer virus...

Their providers instantly cancel their email accounts, and send me a post, informing me that they've dealt with the inernet abuser bad guy...

Try SpamCop. You can send reports about bounces to innocent parties to the folk erroneously sending you the bounce (as it is also considered to be spam). Maybe they'll eventually get th emessage and target the real criminals?

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YES! YES, PLEASE!Joi Ito's Web: Bouncing spam and virus messages. Please please stop setting up scripts that bounce virus and spam email back to the sender. You're doubling the spam. Usually the sender or the Read More

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Over at Joi Ito´s blog, I comment to his rants on bouncing spam and virus messages. Essentially, the SMTP protocol wasn´t devised to handle spam messages, though the technical setup itself is perfectly OK. Thus non-delivery notifications (NDN´s) thu... Read More

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Don't bounce back messages from decheung - The Dennis T Cheung Blog
November 30, 2004 4:51 PM

I remember when Apple's Mail.app e-mail client first came out with it's "Bounce" feature. It came out to rave reviews, with the Mac community all excited about what a powerful feature it was, and how great it was for Apple to think of this feature and ... Read More

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