Joi Ito's Web

Joi Ito's conversation with the living web.

Some quotes...

In America, we have the constitution. If something is socially unjust, Americans say 'It's unconstitutional'. In Islam, the equivalent is, 'this is un-Islamic'.

I regard Osama Bin Laden as the Robin Hood character. If we had a democracy in Saudi Arabia, Bin Laden would run for office.

There was a study that came out in June. The question was how the rest of the world views the US. Bin Laden was one of the top 4 on the list of who could help change US behavior. The approval rating, even in Europe has gone down over the last year.

The American Muslim community can help interface with the Muslims in the rest of the world. The American Muslim leaders and the American Jewish to work on issues such as the Palestinian issue.

Q: What about the role of women in Islam

A: Ideals and realities often have a gap. Even the framers did not really give people equal rights at the beginning. The ideal equality, but it didn't end up that way. The prophet was very much a feminist. The problem was when the Koran was implemented, local culture became law. Over 95% of law in the middle east is not from the Koran. The industrial revolution and the spreading of wealth increased the role of women. You can see this in the Middle East as the countries become wealthier, there are more lobbies to allow more equality for women.

If the Islamic world were more democratic and were more economically healthy, you wouldn't have many of the problems you have now. The rage in the Muslim world is focused on local issues. The war on terror should be focused on creating a light at the end of the tunnel and helping people raise themselves up.


It's a shot in the dark but, you don't happen to know if this chat is archived anywhere, do you? I'd love to read/hear the entire thing. Thanks.

"I regard Osama Bin Laden as the Robin Hood character."

It's very easy to Make David and Goliath comparisons, but the truth is what's important. I think the reality is that OBL is just a rich guy with a very bad temper who overreached when he decided to murder thousands of innocent people in New York city.

I don't think this is archived...

I think his point was that the Robin Hood character also came from a rich background. I don't know the story well, but I think he was drawing on several parallels.

As for evil... There was another tutorial on evil. There was a chart of dictators who had killed millions of people. It was quite shocking. Obviously, OBL doesn't even make the list.

I've been thinking that 9-11 has been a defining event for American Moslems the way the founding of Israel and its first war for survival (1948) was for American Jews. It brought them into US mainstream visibility from cloistered, almost underground activity. It provoked internal community building. Ethnic arts were mined by pop culture. It created a sense of righteous eligibility, pride of both citizenship and heritage.

Perhaps the start of something good?

I've been thinking that 9-11 has been a defining event for American Moslems the way the founding of Israel and its first war for survival (1948) was for American Jews. It brought them into US mainstream visibility from cloistered, almost underground activity. It provoked internal community building. Ethnic arts were mined by pop culture. It created a sense of righteous eligibility, pride of both citizenship and heritage.

Perhaps the start of something good?

Your Western Muslims got it all wrong. They speak only of a Western form of Sikhism, and that spells more trouble. The problem with these arm-chair Imams and scholars and mullahs is that they, like their compatriots at home, missed the Message of the Quran and are among the lost.

Islam is not a Church and Islam is not anybody’s toy. It is Allah alone Who arranges the Affairs of mankind in spite of our freedom to choose, and the Quran is The Successor to Muhammad. Below is the Message to today’s experts of the East and West:

These words from the Holy Bible, the handbook of the Crusades:

“Think not that I am come to send peace on Earth. I came not to send peace but a sword.” Gospel According to Saint Matthew 10:34

The Quran says about the Messiah, the son of Mariam:

• "That they said, we killed the Messiah Eesa, the son of Mariam, the Apostle of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for a surety they killed him not". Quran 4:157

Allah therefore says that the alleged crucifixion of Eesa the Messiah, the son of Mariam, the Apostle of Allah, is definitely a trick, and that all that surrounds this trick are mere extensions of the same trick. Allah does not say that they did not crucify Jesus King of the Jews. The appearance of Jesus out of the trick of the crucifixion is the phantom Christ from which the Islam (Injeel) was removed and replaced with the pagan worship of Zeus and called the Mystery (Trick) of the Trinity, or Trinitheism:

 Therefore Christianity is a Trick.
 Therefore Jesus Christ is a Trick.
 Therefore the Bible is a Trick.

Islam requires the worship of One God while Christianity requires the worship of three separate Gods as one in the Trinity, which produces Trinitheism or the futility of polytheistic monotheism.

All of the prophets of the One God preached the worship of Only One God, which is Islam.

The First or Greatest Commandment taken from the Bible, is, the Lord our God is One.

The Quran commands that, There is no God but Allah, and that Allah is One.

Islam is not a religion of blind acceptance but calls for reason, and we can reasonably accept the existence of Allah although we are unable to fathom the nature of Allah.

o “And one of the Scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?” Gospel of Mark 12:28

The importance of the Scriptures to mankind makes reason and logic of the utmost importance in accepting the Message of the One God. Blind acceptance of the Scripture is therefore prohibited in genuine Scripture.

To accept Jews and Christians and Jesus, of the Trick of the Bible, and the inventions of Judaism and Christianity, after the non-crucifixion of the Messiah, is to submit to the Trick of the Crucifixion of Jesus King of the Jews, which is part and parcel of the trick and deception of Judaism and Christianity. Acceptance of this distortion of Scripture or the inclusion of this distortion of Scripture into the teachings of the Quran or Islam constitutes a conspiracy to discredit Islam and the Quran, and to give credibility to what Allah has declared to be a lie, thereby judging by other than what Allah has revealed.

Muslims have in fact been deceived by the teachings of Christianity and the trick of the crucifixion of the Messiah and have allowed their understanding and translations and interpretation of the Quran to be influenced and overpowered by the Bible and Christian trickery.

The Quran, like the Old Testament of the Bible, does not mention Jews or Christians or Jesus. Jews and Christians and Jesus do not exist in the Quran or in the Old Testament of the Bible. The Quran and the Old Testament of the Bible therefore agree that Christianity and Judaism and Jesus did not exist before the New Testament of the Bible.

There is no mention of Judaism or Christianity in the whole of the Bible and you will not find Christians in the four Gospels (the Four Seasons) of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, since Christians is a nickname that appears in the Acts of the Apostles as applied to Paul and his apostles who were seen as pagan Gods by the priests and worshippers of Zeus, the Sun-God, from which form of worship came the Bible and Christianity.

The Quran was sent as a Mercy to all of mankind, including the Children of Israel who had in their possession the Taurat and the Injeel, but, wedged between the Quran and the Taurat and Injeel, is the Bible, with the Muslim Children of Israel taking cover in the Biblical hoax of Jews and Judaism, from the consequences of their misdeed of attempting to have the Messiah crucified.

The Children of Israel were the Muslims of the BC period who sought an escape from the racial hatred and discrimination that was directed against them for their Islam, in their attempt to crucify the Messiah, which backfired on them until the post Holocaust days that saw Adolph Hitler, a self-proclaimed Messiah, as the new villain.

Christianity converted the Scripture of the Muslim Children of Israel into their own warped form of Scripture with their production of the Bible, which describes the Children of Israel as Jews. Muslims who accept this distortion of Scripture as genuine Scripture, stand opposed to the Quran and place themselves in a position similar to the Jews of the Bible who called for the crucifixion of the Messiah but were given instead Jesus King of the Jews as Jesus Christ. In addition, these Muslims have judged by other than what Allah has revealed. The Quran says of genuine Scripture:

• None of Our Revelation do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar.

Christianity’s guilt for the Holocaust led to sympathy for the Biblical Jews and to the formation of the State of Israel by the Christians and the Communists, who then swung their pre-Holocaust contempt for the Jews against the Islam of the Messiah and Muhammad.

The Quran removed from the Children of Israel, the severity of the Sabbath and death by stoning for breach of the Sabbath, and for adultery, and for the thief and other sinners. The Quran also offered a return to their former state of Islam to the Children of Israel after their rejection of the Messiah and their defilement and loss of the Land of the Inheritance with their successful crucifixion of the two thieves on the Passover and the Sabbath, courtesy of the two Roman Governors.

Arabs have deserted their mother tongue and seen the Quran through the eyes and ideas of Christian scholars with the false insertion of Jews and Christians and Jesus in the Quran. Even the sacred name of Allah is traded for God, even though the Christian meaning of God is in the image and likeness of man, when Muslims know that there is nothing to compare with Allah.

Many Muslims have fallen for the trick of the Gospels and Epistles of the crucifixion of Jesus King of the Jews, which actually are a form of reported sayings, and these Muslims have deserted the teaching of the Quran for Hadith and the science of double standards as they mimic the Christians with their own form of Gospels and Epistles.

Even the Hadith are tainted with the false translations and insertions of Jews and Christians and Jesus that encourage the misunderstanding and distortions that lead to the insertion of Biblical teachings into Islam that are designed to, wittingly or unwittingly, annul the power of the Quran.

Muslims fail to see that this grave error of judgment has made them equal with the Biblical Jews and that they are now being punished for this betrayal of Allah and His Apostles. Well-intentioned tradition and sayings are all welcome but not at the risk of defying Allah.


• “Or do you say that Ibrahim, and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaquub and the Tribes were Penitents or Helpers? Say: Do you know better than Allah? Quran 2, 140
• “Ibrahim was neither a Penitent nor a Helper.” Quran 3, 167

In the above quotations from the Quran we are being told that Penitents (Yahuudi) and Helpers (Nazaaraa) did not exist with the Tribes, and that Yahuudi or Penitents cannot therefore be Jews since Jews would have come from the Tribe of Judah. Nazaaraa or Helpers existed after Yahuudi or Penitents and were not to be Christians since they were also Muslims and of the Children of Israel unlike Christians who are not of Israel and who received no Revelation or Book and who therefore cannot claim to be People of the Book.

The disciples of the Messiah in his time were known as Nazaaraa and Ansar, He asked the question as related in the Quran: who are my Ansar (supporters) to Allah? The disciples said, “We are the Ansar of Allah” and then they made the claim to be Muslim.

The word Ansar means helpers or supporters. The word Nazaaraa is derived from the word Ansar. Some commentators on the Quran also agree that the word has a derivative that indicates the geographical location of these Ansar.

Nazareth in Arabic is called Nasera; these commentators say that Nasaaraa, as well as meaning supporters also means "those who come from Nasera, or Nazarenes.

The followers of the Christ who were prophesied as coming in the name of "Jesus," are known as Christians, that is, easily identifiable as the followers of the transformed Messiah who became Jesus Christ or Jezeus Christos. The Gospels call the Messiah a Nazarene, while the word or the name Christian, cannot be found in any Gospel since there were no Christians before the transformation of the Messiah into the Greek version of the son of Zeus from among the Children of Israel by the pagans of Rome, which is why the “Jews from Antioch” condemned Paul for his preaching a false Messiah. (Acts of the Apostles 14:1-18 & 11:26)

These quotations tell us also that the Tribes, and therefore the Tribe of Judah from whence came the Jews, ceased to exist when the Children of Israel became known as Penitents or Yahuudi after their journey with prophet Musa, and that Nazaaraa does not therefore refer to Christians since Christians were not of the Tribes nor can they be described as People of the Book. Christianity never had a prophet and never received Revelation since Christianity is an offshoot of the failed crucifixion of the Messiah.

Quran is the Final Revelation from Allah to mankind and although it was sent down in Arabic because Muhammad (peace be upon him) was an Arab, this does not mean that Allah cannot communicate in other languages, including English.

The Bible must be viewed as an attempt by pagan Rome to control all religion within the Roman Empire, including the Islam of the prophets of the Children of Israel, with the Messiah as the Crucified Saviour and Son of God of the pagan worship of Zeus, the Living God incarnate. This form of worship removed the effort and the sacrifice that is necessary to avoid the performance of evil deeds, because it is said to have removed all punishment for breach of commands of the One God, since the Living God is said to have died for the sins of the World.

“I and the father are one” produces an amalgamation of Jah (the God of Israel) and Zeus (the God of pagan Rome) to give birth to the son, Jesus (Jezeus) in the mysterious incestuous relationship of which this pagan mystery accuses the mother and the son. This mystery, like the Gospels, arose only after the trick of the crucifixion of the two thieves with three crosses bearing the inscription, Jesus King of the Jews, in the three languages of Hebrew, Latin and Greek.

The Children of Israel (Bani Israel) today accept refuge in the false identity of Judaism and Jews that the deception of the Bible offers them in exchange for the Christ as Jesus the son of Zeus. They accept the Bible as their deed for the Land of Palestine because the ignorance of Christianity is too blind to see the agreement between the Quran and the Bible about the Jews failed attempt to crucify the Messiah and their success instead at getting two of their thieves crucified in breach of the Sabbath and the Passover and the Law of the Inheritance of the Book of Deuteronomy.

The Jews have no claim to Israel or to Palestine or to Jerusalem, according to the Bible and the Quran, and they have no choice but to return to Islam and to accept the Quran.

Israel or Yaqub (Jacob) was a Muslim prophet, whose twelve sons were also Muslims as was the Messiah, and the Messiah was sent among the Children of Israel to bring them back to the Islam of their forefathers, but they rejected the Messiah and his teachings, and their failed attempt to have him crucified led to their further loss of direction and of the land of the inheritance, and to the formation of Christianity by way of the trick of the crucifixion and the Bible.

The four Gospels were written after and about the crucifixion of Jesus King of the Jews as a result of the request by the Children of Israel to Roman authority to have the Messiah crucified. The Gospels describe the Children of Israel as Jews when the separation by tribalism had already ceased and the Twelve Tribes had actually become one people under leadership of the prophet Musa (Moses).

To accept that man is a “vicegerent” of Allah is to promote nothing less than blasphemy. Vicegerency of Allah wrongfully implies the creation of a Vice-Allah or Vice-God to represent Allah, in the absence of Allah. Allah is Omnipresent, always near and never absent.

Because Muslims have accepted these distortions into the meaning of the Quran, along with non-Muslim translators, beginning with their inclusion of Jews and Christians and Jesus in the translations and interpretation of the Quran, they have aligned themselves with Christianity in opposition to the Quran.

Allah has designed Religion, or Deen, or Way of Life, or Law, or Legislation, for Worship of Allah Only. Allah gives to Himself alone the right or authority to be worshipped or to legislate for mankind. When men create laws or legislate by their own whims and fancies and not in accordance with the Quran, they set themselves up as Gods in derogation of Allah.

When Muslims accept the authority of such Gods, in defiance of Allah, they worship these false Gods as Partners to Allah.

Allah permits the “of-necessity” allowance “but not through wilful disobedience” but the Muslim must struggle to free himself from being a slave (abd ) or worshipper of false Gods who impose their legislation on him.

Allah tells us in the Quran of Eesa al Masih stating that he did not say what he was not authorized to say, that he did not tell men to worship him and his mother as Gods in derogation of Allah. He did not legislate outside of the Injeel of the Messiah.

When Muslims say that Rasulullah (pbuh) authorized that the adulteress be stoned to death, contrary to what the Quran (The Final Revelation) teaches, then these Muslims are setting up prophet Muhammad as a Rival to Allah and as a false God. It may well be for this reason that Muslims were called Mohammedans since Christians are so called because they preach the Gospel and the Epistles of Jesus Christ instead of the Injeel.

Many Muslim scholars support the stoning to death for adultery as legislation of the prophet Muhammad outside of the Quran and contrary to Quran, and they claim to find justification for this in Hadith.

Adultery in Islam requires four witnesses, but in the absence of these witnesses both parties are allowed to swear by Allah etc. etc. Allah commands that adultery can lead to greater sin.

It is the greatest of sins to give partners to Allah as much as it is to judge by other than the Quran.

Let those who trust put their trust in Allah. Never said I what I had no authority to say.

No man alive today or those who lived during the days of the Revelation of the Quran and up until today, had or has the authority to override Quran, and Muslims who do so or who condone such behaviour are guilty of Shirk.

• “Say! It is not for me of my own accord to change it. I follow naught but what is revealed unto me. If I were to disobey my Lord I fear the penalty of a Great Day. Say! If Allah had so willed I should not have rehearsed it to you, nor would He have made it known to you.” Quran 10: 15-16

It has taken mankind more than 1400 years, with 20th. Century technology and University scientists and research resources, to begin to unravel the simple scientific information contained in the Quran about:
 Human Embryonic Development,
 Mountains,
 The Origins of the Universe,
 The Cerebrum,
 Seas and Rivers,
 Deep Seas and Internal Waves, and
 Clouds.

The prophet (pbuh) was quite illiterate, but had he been the most educated man in the World, he would still have been unable to understand the meaning of probably more than half of the knowledge contained in the Quran.

It is no small wonder then that there isn’t one single Hadith that reports the prophet’s scientific explanation of any one of the above topics.

None of those who reported having heard the prophet say, so and so and so, were able to elaborate on anything scientific. The prophet lacked the knowledge and the authority and they lacked the knowledge, and no one was able to understand the scientific information contained in the Revelation that is the Quran, not even the enemies of the Messenger, hence the lack of such Hadith being documented, since none could have invented such sayings. Such information would surely have silenced the critics and enhanced the credibility of the prophet and his companions, but Allah is the Exalted in Power, the Wise.

None of the prophets had the authority to explain the Message, and they had no reason to, since they spoke the same language of their respective people to whom they were sent. They all simply brought the Message and lived the example of the Message: Worship none but Allah.

Muhammad (pbuh) spoke to his companions with this Message from Allah, and the Message, the Quran therefore commands obedience to Allah and the Messenger, not that the Messenger should be obeyed separately, or that he was allowed to legislate on his own, but that the obedience must be to the Message and therefore to Allah and His Messenger. In the absence of the Messenger, the obedience is to Allah and the Quran, for which the Messenger is remembered, but the Messenger is dead and absent and therefore no longer speaks to his people or to those who accept Islam and the Quran.

To make the prophet present in speech as if he never died is to immortalise the man in a racist form of worship. To speak of obeying the Messenger, who died close to 1400 years ago, through hearsay reports that had no Divine authority, some of which override Quran, is again nothing short of Shirk and blasphemy

Muslim scholars speak about the chronological significance of certain verses of the Quran and their relation to certain events, yet they refuse to address the chronological significance of the life of the prophet, and they choose to refer to him as an immortal and still present with the Quran, in order to justify Hadith that compete with or override Quran, and in order to satisfy the lust for power by kings and emirs and scholars and others as the phantom vicegerents of Allah, when Allah is Omnipresent, needs no partners and never had need of partners or of man.

1400 years on and the Muslims are still unable or unwilling to produce a true meaning of the Quran, not even in Arabic, far less in some translation, so the teachings of the Quran seem to be lost in the mad rush for illusionary power and intellectual self-gratification and moronic awe among Muslims.

The Messiah is the connecting link between Islam and Israel and Christianity, the three claimants to the City of Jerusalem, but different views are held by each concerning the Messiah who draws them together in conflict and in efforts to bring an end to such conflict in the Middle East, and to bring some semblance of peace to Planet Earth.

Mankind has now arrived at that stage where the focus is now on Jerusalem and Israel and the Palestinian Muslims, with the Bible-quoting President of the United States of America refusing to acknowledge that the Quran is the only way to bring an end to hostilities in the Middle East.

Jerusalem is where the rejection of the Messiah created the illusion of the crucified saviour that cursed the land of the inheritance, and where Trinitheism was born in a tomb that had before held no man and was made to hold only one hundred pounds of aloes and myrrh.

Today, the modern Crossbearers of USA and Britain and Australia are attempting to roll back the stone from the tomb that was left wide open as Islam and its prophets are once more denied and Hitler’s desire to eliminate the Islam of the prophets is attempted once again.

This may sound revolting to the scholars, Christian and others, and the Imams and the Rabbis but it is what the Quran commands, that Muslims must now repent and amend and put their trust in Allah and beg the forgiveness of Allah for their betrayal of the trust.

Muhammad Abdur Raheem

Muhammad Abdur Raheem

You are a liar. I could show you more than a hundred verses from the Quran that talk about the Jews.

You are an idealogue and a fantatic and unworthy of recognition. I'll bet Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf believes everything you just said, however.